Saturday, April 10, 2010

Pacifica Forum.. near collapse?

The noted hate group Pacifica Forum met again in the Downtown Baker Center- this week was Jimmy Marr presenting his third video 'why the holocaust didn't happen, because of detail inaccuracies between sources' and true to form like all good conspiracy videos, told in a monotonous monotone voice. After listing their arguments, I will begin deconstructing them. 

Summary: The holocaust didn't happen, the gas chambers were a lie. The Nuremberg trials were a farce because the numbers and exact dates were estimations from the testimony varied slightly. The movie showed that there were multiple chemicals for killing prisoners, 'but they should only have used only one to be efficient', so the whole holocaust is a lie. The bodies were POWs, clearly, as evidenced by... nothing. Oh, and the camps were havens for retreating germans, fleeing the combat areas in Western and Eastern Germany... and all those records of Jews, Romani and political dissidents- all made up. "I don't know... Yeah, I think this video is a good example of critical thinking"- Jimmy Marr. 

-In short, its all a conspiracy, a big jewish conspiracy-
... riiight. 

This is a load of ridiculous tripe, Gas chambers are still standing, incinerators are still standing, mass graves still piled with bodies. After months and years of trains and untold faces going to die, you lose count after several hundred thousand. Estimates will vary, the killing went on for a long time. it doesn't make the killing anymore acceptable.  The chemicals may have changed, because we don't learn in school, how to kill; the Nazis made a science out it, with guess and check. It is my understanding that there was a process of transition- from guns, to gas vehicles to gas chambers and the specific chemicals are irrelevant! If they changed the method of killing, or used different methods at different times, then witnesses would see different things; but that does not change the deaths of millions or make them more tolerable. POWs in death camps? Really? They had prisoner camps, they didn' t need the death camps to house prisoners. As to fleeing Germans, the local cities were not evacuated, there were civilians living in them, there was no great exodus and for the few who fled, why go to the death camps- no food, cramped and not a housing facility and there were german soldiers there, so the allies would be sure to target these places! The argument is absurd, that would be like running to jail to flee the cops. As to the made up records well, if you don't believe birth certificates and the nazi lists of deceased, there is not much I can say, because you wont believe any evidence I present. 

There are survivors today, people who saw the death camps. How is it you deny the collective reports of thousands, the admission of the nazis to the events which occurred and the vast record of deceased? The gravity of the situation is not a joke, the deaths are not acceptable, not then and not today. The Armenian genocide, Rwanda, India, Irish, Native American/First people, Bosnia and Herzegovina (Sarajevo), and others, do you deny these, the historical mass murder of the past? Do you deny Palestine or Darfur, or anywhere else today? These are not acceptable. 

I am glad to report this long-standing hate group's member ship seems in decline, I counted only 7 participants, including the presenter (Jimmy Marr) and sponsor (Orval Etter). 11 detractors were present.

Even better news, no presentation next week, they couldn't find somebody to speak! Maybe they will decide to disband soon. One can only hope.


Witness said...

Here we go again, playing with the numbers:

According to the anonymous writer above, 18 individuals attended Pacifica Forum yesterday, Friday, April 9 (not including a representative from the UO and approximately half a dozen security personnel).

Included in the 18 were Jimmy Marr and the Forum sponsor, Professor Emeritus, Orval Etter.

Approximately 8 people were frequent attendees with a broad range of outlooks. One new attendee came at the invitation of the speaker. 3 others were new faces.

"Detractors" could have included someone who frequently shouts out interruptions, and self-anointed "monitors" from CALC and the Anti-Hate Task Force (armed with pens, papers and intrusive video cameras).

The input of all Pacifica Forum attendees is welcome.

Jay Knott said...

This country is famous for its conspiracy theories. Millions of people believe the US government was involved in the September 11th massacre, for example. Personally, I am not impressed by these theories. But instead of protesting against them or disrupting them, I try to respectfully argue against them. What's so special about Holocaust revisionism? For me, it is no more absurd than the 9/11 conspiracy theory, widely believed on the left. The difference is not the degree of logic or evidence - the difference is entirely political. The difference is that Holocaust revisionism offends Jews, whereas '9/11 Truth' only offends the CIA, who are not easily offended. Offensiveness is not a criterion for establishing the truth of a theory.

Anonymous said...

Real haters call truth-seeking groups "hate" groups. They have something to hide or are plain ignorant. The anonymous writer deconstructed nothing. "Numbers and exact dates were estimations from the testimony varied slightly." No! Varied hugely. Testimony is a second-rate method at best to establish truth. Too subject to error, exaggeration and omission. Real scholarship from historians employ first-hand sources from national archives, letters, etc for documentary evidence, etc.

The collective Jewish testimony as enshrined at Yad Vashem varies to a great degree, i.e. is contradictory as to date, event and place as to each camp. Yad Vashem even admits this mass of contradiction in its own archives.

The camps were factory systems as well as transient stations, never "death" camps, an idea installed a billion times by Zionist-owned publications and Ziomedia sources since 1945. Hitler needed manpower for factories as most German men were at the front. Jews and others fulfilled that manpower need. Why on earth would he kill Jews if he was manpower-desperate?

Most Jews chose to retreat from the camps with Germans as the Soviets advanced killing, looting and raping on the Jewish Soviet propaganda minister Ilya Ehrenburg's orders to kill and rape! Most Jews knew they'd be safer with nazis than with Soviets. Elie Wiesel was among them.

The so-called gas chambers at some camps were resoundingly disproven as such by Faurisson, Leuchter, Mattogno and others as unfunctional as killing chambers. Many testimonies of inmates give physically impossible dimensions (hundreds being crammed into a little room at any one time, etc) as well as discrepancies in other reportage. "Gas chambers" were delousing chambers for typhus and other uses. Too many leaks for lethal gases, etc.

"Nazi lists of deceased" showed only 74,000 dying at Auschwitz the whole time of operation as a synthetic rubber factory, about half Jews, mostly from typhus, relatively few from shooting and hanging of troublemakers. No gas chambers. Allied bombers blew up roads and railroads leading to the camps. This made it hard to procure supplies, thus typhus and hunger outbreaks.

"Collective reports of thousands" reveal the aforementioned problem of confusing testimony contradiction.

In his litany of true genocides, i.e. Armenia, Rwanda, India, Irish, native American, Bosnia, Palestinian and Darfur, Mr. Anonymous conveniently omits Genghis Khan and Tamerlane, and the BIGGEST by far in all history - the COMMUNIST genocides of every regime since 1917 - over 100 million innocent people, usually citizens of the dictatorial regime! This is a mega-tragedy lefties always gloss over. Shame! But of course it's not nice to throw light on Communist atrocities. Only exaggerated nazi ones can be condemned. Shows how brainwashed the unread Mr. Know-It-All sadly is.

Read Dolot's 'Execution by Hunger,' Conquest's 'Harvest of Sorrow' and 'The Great Terror.' These 3 books cover only the Soviet, not the other Communist genocides. Mr KIA's world and knowledge of history is limited indeed.

Iskren said...

Since the article mentions Bosnia-Herzegovina, here are two sources about the mass murders of civilians in the towns of Srebrenica and Visegrad:

Anonymous said...

A Strange Alliance in Eugene, of Zionists, Communists & Anarchists, all under the marching orders of the 'thought policeman' on behalf of CALC & anti-HATE task force. Another article against free-thinking / free-speech? What else does one expect in Eugene?

Anonymous said...

Against free thinking, hardly!

Against a bunch of Sexist, Racists and other bigots who promote violence, Always!

It is not constitute 'thought police' to criticise what others say in a public forum. To try to mitigate or silence critiques does.

Also, its not just Zionist to say the Holocaust happened, because it did, as a matter of historical fact. It is anarchistic to stand in solidarity with those being oppressed and oppose historical oppression- like the Holocaust, or what's happening in Gaza etc.
As to the label of Communism, that is really quite similar in definition to Anarchy, so I wont repeat the above statement. If you had said socialism or authoritarianism I would have responded differently.

As to CALC and the Anti-Hate task force, none of them were involved with the writing of this article. You assume too much. Furthermore it would be a point of pride to support a group that tries to break down racism, sexism, homophobia and other biases to promote a better community.

Witness said...

An odd comment from the name-calling "Anonymous" above.

Having attended that Forum frequently I have heard the opinions of numerous speakers who do not share my own. Allowing for time, critique is part of the structure of the presentations. Never, as alleged in the previous comment, have I heard any speaker in any way promote violence. Meanwhile, you might consider the approach of some "detractors." Don't miss the pacifistic video: